Ep 146: Feelings Check-In. 1) Navigating Complex Partnership Convos 2) Creation vs. Commentary 3) Acknowledging Successes

[00:00] I also took my pants off, so I think there's going to be a nice ass shot for whoever is editing this pod, which is you or me. The Feelings Check-In is a podcast for people who love to listen to two women overshare about the challenges of building a business, navigating careers in tech, and trying to have a personal life. I'm Natasha Hoskins. I'm Dina Burke. And this is Boys Club. Wait, is it just Boys Club? It's just Boys Club. The Boys Club podcast? No. No. [00:28] Just boys thought. [00:30] Bonjour. Welcome to Brussels. I wish I knew how to say one word in [00:39] Flemish. [00:40] i think it islamish right i think so i've just been speaking uh my incredible french to everybody so that's been my vibe welcome to the felix check-in i'm natasha i'm dina [00:55] And this is a podcast where we share our feelings about our life and our work and the industry that we're in and [01:02] All the various other things that happen in and around Boys Club. [01:08] we are in Brussels [01:11] this week for a crypto conference. [01:14] called ECC. We're going to be talking about that in Friday's episode. We're not going to be talking about that [01:20] here today except for just [01:22] ambiently, passively, we're here in a new city. So that's the energy we're bringing into it, though. That's not going to be the topic of today's conversation. Exactly. Exactly. So on today's pod, we spend some time on this podcast talking about the pain points from once you've passed zero to one when you're in the one to, I don't know, post one.

[01:43] when it comes to editorial discretion, when it comes to partnership conversation, when it comes to people recognizing that you've built a business, and when it comes to big questions around content and creation and what we're trying to sort through right now and feels present in our day-to-day. And Dina's pretty smooth brain on it, which is totally reasonable because she... [02:03] has been flying and doesn't sleep on planes and i just yapped so i hope you like it okay okay bye [02:12] you [02:13] Hey, Natasha. So a question we get asked a lot is, what do you look for in a crypto platform? So let's talk about it. Well, Dina, I look for a secure, no fuss platform that I can dive into right away. That's why I love today's sponsor, Kraken. If you're waiting for the right time to get into crypto, Kraken makes it super easy and intuitive to get started. Plus, if you get stuck, they have an award-winning client support team that's available 24-7, along with a bunch of educational guides, articles, and videos to help you along the way. If you're ready to check out [02:43] We're going to talk about a few things here today related to how we feel. [03:06] one i feel like i'm in some bad lighting that's how i'm feeling i'm feeling like this lighting is a crime but do you have your ring light with you i do have my ring light yeah but i think it's just a red eye flight and totally and also it's bad lighting i'm i'm seeing the same thing for myself okay keep going what are our feelings okay we're gonna talk about editorial discretion and partnership complexity as we grow

[03:30] We're going to talk about some of the things that have evolved in this business over the course of the last three years, which is crazy that we're coming up on three years. That's crazy. And we're going to talk about creation versus commentary. [03:45] In a media business. [03:48] and our feelings around all of it. So do you want to kick us off? Sure. It's funny. We've always made a joke on this podcast and in our newsletters and wherever we show up that we're not journalists. And this was especially funny when you were going to the courthouse. [04:02] every day and covering the sam baker and fried trial next to like literally new york times like poll to prize winners they're like what organization are you with and i'm like a little thing called boys club [04:15] And so it's kind of a favorite running joke that we have. And it's true. We're not journalists. [04:23] We're not. [04:24] Though I did study it in school. I know. I forget that. Also, we just had lunch with LaTosha, which was so fun. And we were like, yeah, we're not. We were talking about this same sort of pain point. And we were like, we're not journalists. And she was like, I don't know. You guys are kind of giving journalists. [04:40] It was so funny. It was really funny. Her saying you're giving journalists killed me. I was just like, I don't know why. It's incredible. It's an incredible observation. But I think like the reason that we've always made that joke and we've always been clear [04:54] sort of a code of ethics and which we don't have well a commitment to being a

[05:01] Dog with a bone about the truth. I think that that's what journalists... [05:06] are trained to do. I'm also watching Newsroom. [05:10] Oh, I loved Newsroom. [05:12] It's weird that you thought that I wouldn't know that. I just didn't know if you were an Aaron Sorkin gal. Well, I don't know. West Wing, you know. [05:19] yeah of course of course [05:22] So I'm watching this room. And so I'm like, those people are journalists. For me, the reason why I don't call myself a journalist, [05:28] Um, [05:29] There's so many reasons, but I think the thing that comes to mind the most is it implies [05:34] a rigor around the truth. [05:37] That like, I'm not trying to lie, of course, but your job is to present fact. [05:42] And I don't feel like I'm finding facts and presenting them. I feel like fact checking those facts as well. [05:48] Yeah, I feel like I'm... This is a vibe first thing here. [05:53] Yeah, and I think we've always said we... [05:56] And still maintain that we're going to be wrong. We're going to be wrong. Don't make any important life decisions based on the information you're getting from this podcast. That's 100% like the most honest thing I can say. I can say it with my full chest. Totally. [06:08] I totally agree. So all that said, we've always made that joke. It's really funny. It's hilarious. And yet. [06:17] We have. [06:19] found ourselves in a really interesting situation where we had a potential partnership that we were sort of nurturing over a number of weeks and [06:26] part of the negotiation with that partner and [06:29] was [06:30] around something that ultimately felt like it crossed a boundary into our editorial discretion, where the partner was going to be expecting things that

[06:43] were [06:44] going to change the way that we would potentially like quote unquote cover things that were happening in the industry, whether it's in the newsletter or the podcast and, um, [06:52] I think [06:53] We've never thought of ourselves as journalists, but [06:55] in this negotiation [06:57] it was revealed to us, I think, where it was like, oh, we're not. But I think there is still a responsibility that we have to people who listen and to people who read the newsletters. [07:09] to be as fair and balanced as we possibly can. And I think it was a big learning for us where we were like, I have never really had that clear editorial line between that voice and that side of the business and the sort of advertising or sponsorship side of the business. And I think it became clear for us in the past couple weeks that like that's actually really important for [07:27] a business like ours to maintain its integrity. And if you lose that, if you start to blur that line, [07:33] then the whole thing starts to [07:36] be built on a shaky foundation. Journalists or not, I think what you're speaking to is editorial discretion. [07:42] and... [07:44] an honesty about [07:46] what we cover, how we cover it, what we talk about, what we say. [07:50] what Boys Club is, I think, uniquely [07:53] good at is a speed and humor and edge to what we post and what we write and what we talk about on this podcast and that not having [08:07] because of the partners we had thus far, having... [08:11] a [08:13] filter. And I think it's a sign of growth in the business that we're starting to feel that pressure because we're starting to have enough

[08:22] partners and enough interest enough people that we're talking to where [08:25] the deals are looking a little bit more complicated and more 360 and more all encompassing. And that's great. But for the first time, we're having to make decisions around [08:37] "Okay, are we willing to compromise on these fronts? [08:40] for this revenue. [08:41] And [08:43] If so, what's the impact of that on our business and our editorial voice and our brand, which is a lot of value of Voice Club. Arguably, I'd say where a lot of the business value is, not the community value, but I think like the value from a business perspective. [08:57] Totally. So we had to protect that. And actually had to remove ourselves from the conversation for two reasons. One, because we felt a desire to protect our editorial voice. [09:07] And the other was that were... [09:10] we can be people pleasers when it comes to our partners and we want to make people happy and especially people who are paying us we want them to be very happy and we want to make sure that they are [09:19] pleased with the partnership that we garner goodwill with people that's always been like an objective to have a really good reputation in this business to be an organization that people love to work with that they're like delighted by the work and happy with [09:32] Like I always want people to be like, oh my gosh, boys club go above and beyond. They always deliver. They do the most that they can. And... [09:40] Because of that, we tend to do a lot for our partners. And when we feel like we can't deliver on that, [09:47] it's really upsetting to us. Like we take it personally. We take it as a personal failure. And so for us, part of it was also like, I don't think we can deliver in a way that's going to make this organization happy and make them feel like what they're getting is worth what they're paying for. And it was a, I think, mature decision on our front.

[10:06] Because it was saying no to cash flow for this business. [10:12] which is very hard to do and cash flow that was going to affect our bottom line you and me for the first time since we started boys club three years ago where we were actually going to get a raise which would have been cool [10:25] Very cool. And we had to make a decision around that. That felt really hard at the time. Felt very, very hard at the time. [10:34] I think it was the right call. [10:36] I think it was a recall. I... [10:38] want to just say there's a lot of partners that we love that have allowed us to [10:42] thrive, [10:44] And... [10:45] do the things that we're best at and entrust us to go off. [10:49] and Kraken is one of them. They're incredible. They [10:52] make it possible for us to do this podcast and many other things. We're doing an event with Optimism in a few hours. We're doing an event with DYDX and Wormhole tomorrow night. We've really come to a place where there's a lot of people that we really love to work with. And I also think those relationships are all... [11:10] really [11:11] high trust and so there's a lot of room for us to [11:15] do our thing and our partners do their thing and like everyone knows that we're operating with excellence and I think that that makes a difference okay do you want to talk about [11:22] creation versus curation i kind of want to talk about one other thing related to partnerships [11:27] Okay, I don't know like how that how this is at all relatable. [11:31] I mean, what we say about this podcast is like the difficulties of growing a business. And like that's directly related to what we just talked about. That's true. That's true.

[11:41] So we can move on to something else, but. Go off. [11:46] Um... [11:49] Boys Club started as this grassroots thing. [11:51] And it is so much a part of what Boys Club is and shall always be. [11:56] But also like... [11:57] You and I have built, along with Miranda and a bunch of other people, [12:02] We've built a whole ass business. [12:04] with absolutely [12:06] no investment all of the nft sale is owned and operated by the community none of that money went into the media business [12:15] Not a dollar. And I sometimes I'm just a tiny bit annoyed that like sometimes people still see us as like an affinity group where they're like, oh my God, like I love boys club. Like. [12:29] you guys are so cute. And I'm like, okay, that's your POV. [12:36] And it kind of annoys me. It kind of annoys me. It's annoying. It's, it's, it's belittling. [12:40] It's belittling. Yeah. [12:42] It's belittling. - And sometimes I'm just like, you know what? I'm gonna congratulate myself. We've done a thing that's really hard to do. [12:48] really hard to do and we've done it and [12:51] I was talking to another friend the other day, [12:53] And he's like, so like, what's the business doing? And I like told him and he was like, oh, damn. [12:57] you guys did it i'm like yeah we did we did do it and that feels really good [13:05] So anyway, while we're on it, just going to toot my own horn. [13:11] I think it's good to recognize...

[13:15] I just, I don't. [13:19] We're so bad. This is something my friend LJ tells me all the time. She was like, you and Dina are such enablers for each other. You guys literally never celebrate the wins. She's been to so many events with us, so many parties. She's like, one of my friends will just get on a plane and go to a boys club party with me just for the... [13:36] shits and giggles just for the bit and every morning [13:40] That that happens the next day we wake up. [13:42] and we all go get a little coffee. [13:43] And you and I just shit on everything that we thought we did wrong. And she's like, when is this going to stop? I totally get that. I think that I appreciate you taking a moment to celebrate the wins. I think... [13:58] The feeling that comes up for me is [14:00] I don't know. That's true and... [14:04] It somehow feels... [14:07] All I can see is the work that's in front of us. [14:09] Totally. [14:10] And so I just have a hard time relating to it. I totally. But I think I feel it in my bones. I don't feel that in my bones. But I think part of why is because we never sit down and look each other in the face and say we've done something. Totally. I also think that like. [14:27] There's just a sales muscle that... [14:30] I don't have. And I think that that is related to sort of the bravado that's required to sort of [14:38] say look how good we've done and also i just don't know i also just like truthfully don't know how interesting it is to listen to on podcast that's that's totally thing but every single week i think truthfully how interesting is this podcast

[14:54] So that doesn't go away. That's fair. That's fair. That does not go away. [15:01] It's time for a more open, inclusive, and transparent financial system. A system that serves nearly everyone, everywhere, all the time. That's why we love today's sponsor, Kraken. Kraken is a crypto platform that provides a super simple on-ramp to the world of crypto with a 24-7 support team. Crypto transcends physical and imaginary borders. No matter where you are, you can send funds easily and quickly to almost any part of the world. Plus, forget about waiting times and waiting lines. You can send, receive, and trade crypto anywhere near instantly. [15:30] Okay. [15:52] Creation versus commentary. [15:54] We have been bopping around... [15:56] This. [15:57] Idea. [15:58] at HQ where there's like two buckets of content that you see in the world. If you're painting with a broad brush. [16:08] Commentary. [16:09] CNN, MSNBC, TMZ, Dumois, I don't know. These are like something is happening in the world and you are... [16:19] Putting your two cents on it. Mm-hmm. [16:21] Verse. [16:22] creation. [16:24] Which...

[16:25] - Okay. [16:26] Net new. Fleabag. [16:28] Even reality TV. [16:30] Something that you're creating and putting out into the world. [16:34] And we keep thinking about like, are we just commentators or are we, [16:38] creating something net new. And a lot of what we're doing on this podcast is... [16:44] maybe not the feelings check-in specifically, but malware on Fridays, the two newsletters that we do, a lot of the content we're doing on social is commenting on what's happening in tech news, what's happening in crypto, what's happening on the internet, and putting our spin on it, which there's some... [17:00] level of [17:01] creative energy that goes into that. But for the most part, it's commentary. And I think there's levels to how creatively fulfilling that is. [17:10] And I think the question I've been asking myself about the work is, [17:15] what does NetNew look like for us and for Boys Club? What does creation look like? [17:19] for us as opposed to just commentary on [17:22] specific topics and it's a really challenging question because [17:26] I don't know the answer. Yeah. I think that both are valid. And like, I don't, and I know you're not doing this, but like not even putting like a [17:35] Judgment on either being better than the other I think it's just when it comes to the [17:41] what feels more joyous for us, I think, is net new creation. And I think also, [17:47] Another aspect of the commentary side of content feels... [17:52] Like there can be a lot of recycled takes. Yeah.

[17:55] And that's uninteresting to contribute to that pile of content on the internet of recycled takes. So I think that, yeah, creation, [18:06] Net new putting out a fresh idea into the world and [18:10] I think that's what we're called to, but yeah, it's hard. It's what does that look like? What does that look like for Boys Club and where is there a creative well for us to tap into that feels authentic? Yeah, just like pushing ourselves in that direction more. Pushing ourselves in that direction more because I think more and more the trend of the internet and the trend of content is just regurgitation of other things that are happening online. And I think this is actually a pain point we've been feeling a lot around the business is when we... [18:36] started Boys Club three years ago. [18:39] it felt so fresh and the brand identity was great and i think you have to evolve as we talked about [18:46] podcast like you have to have this ever evolving sense of what [18:49] your business looks and feels like i think as a lifestyle brand and part of that is thinking about what you're creatively producing and i think we're in this funny season where like we've gotten really [19:00] clear on [19:02] the properties of Boys Club. Like, I feel really happy with the work of cleanup that we've done over the past few months. And going deeper into those properties feels like the right thing to be doing. But it also means that you have to be like really creatively. [19:15] pushing yourself so that those [19:17] things don't just become like stale and dry and just every week kind of like spinning your wheel on something that you did the week before. [19:24] One other thing that's interesting about being at these conferences is,

[19:27] When you've sort of settled into your business, I feel like we've been at the zero to one, zero to one, zero one. And now we've been at the one for a little bit now. And we're like, okay, we've gotten into some sort of gear here. And I have found that it's interesting being at these conferences. It's been a while since I feel like I've been at one of these conferences, probably like since Denver, really in February. [19:47] And people are like, so what's the deal with boys club? And for many years, [19:52] It was like, well, we're trying this, and then we tried this, and then we're doing this. And it was like experimentation, experimentation, throwing stuff at the wall. Are we going to be able to... [20:00] Be full time. And then it was like, okay, now that we're full time, we're like figuring out now we're trying to hire and not like, you know, like there were these big, [20:06] momentous things we were trying and updates and things like that. And now it's interesting because... [20:11] I kind of don't know what to say when people are like, so what's up with boys club? I'm like, well, we've kind of figured some things out. We still have a lot to figure out. And there's a whole new set of challenges around, um, [20:21] how we grow the business, how we go from two to four or two to ten or one to ten or whatever. And that feel like a lot more difficult to talk about, actually, because it's like, how much do you share? And like, without getting into the weeds. And I found myself being really unsure of what to say when people are like, so what's the latest with Boys Club? [20:40] And... [20:41] There's a lot that I could say, but what is actually interesting to people? And also what are the things that are actually going to be like, [20:48] Productive and what's going to be productive in that conversation depending on where that person is at what they want to hear about whether they're like in boys club in a community member where that whether they're like a partner whether they're just like someone in the industry and I think I have.

[21:02] just spent a lot of time needing a lot out of those conversations from people and wanting to hear a lot from those from people in those moments and now we're sort of in this position where it's like man how deep do we want to go here how much time do you have how much time do you have and can you solve some of these fundamental bigger questions that aren't just like [21:23] the 101 of the business they're like much totally [21:26] So that's been an interesting feeling around just being here in Brussels and chatting with people. [21:30] Okay, thanks for listening. Sorry, I'm a smooth brain. I have been up for like 20 hours straight. I appreciate your take very much. I [21:41] I agree. [21:42] Agreed. Agreed. Plus one.