How We Incubate and Launch New Products With AI - Ep. 40 with Danny Aziz, Brandon Gell

[00:00] Spiral allows you to automate 80% of the writing that you have, the repetitive writing. You can give it how you tweet, how you write newsletters, and then it learns your tone, the voice, the structure that you want. And it just gives you the content from the content that you already have. The biggest differentiator is like when you raise $50 million, I kind of felt like I personally and the business was always sprinting to make sure that we didn't topple over ourselves. Like we [00:30] I think there's that thing that we're sort of aspiring to, like a word that we often use internally is like building a little bit of a creative playground. And you have this principle that you apply to your life from then on, which is... [00:41] Fuck around and find out. I thought you were going to say measure twice. Oh, right. We talked about this, Danny. It's kind of what we're doing here a little bit. Yeah. It's like measure twice, cut once in the front, and then fuck around and find out in the back. [01:07] Danny, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. And Brandon, welcome back to the show. Thank you. So we are doing a little bit of a different episode today. We've got, for people who don't know, Danny Aziz, you are running Spiral, which is a every product we're launching, or we just launched an entirely new version of Spiral. And Brandon, you run our studio, which produced or created Spiral. And we wanted to all come together and just like talk a

[01:37] bit about [01:38] what we're doing because I think like [01:41] We have a little bit of a different model that we're trying to figure out for media, which is like have a core underlying media business. And we have a newsletter. We've got this YouTube channel. We do podcasts, all that kind of stuff. And then build software out of the experiences and out of the ideas that we have running the media business. And so, Danny, you're like one of the first people to come in and help us do that. So you're a little bit of a little bit of a guinea pig for us. Yeah, definitely. And we're and we're trying to like share a little bit about like what we're learning. [02:11] what that's like. So maybe start by telling us what's new with Spiral and maybe give us a little bit of background into what it is and what we just launched. So Spiral allows you to automate 80% of the writing that you have, the repetitive writing. You can give it how you tweet, how you write newsletters, and then it learns your tone, the voice, the structure that you want. And then you can give it your rough drafts or maybe you've done a podcast and you want to turn that into a [02:41] you the content from the content that you already have that sounds just like you um [02:45] What we've just launched is a brand new design. It looks completely different. [02:49] um [02:50] far more organized. And then the biggest piece I think we're the most excited about is 250 plus public spirals. So we've gone through, we've handcrafted, plus obviously with the help of AI, all of these spirals that will turn one form of content into another. And we've spent a lot of time just making sure that we're happy with it so that everyone else will be happy with it. And then people can take it, they can clone them, they can change it so it sounds like them, and they can continue using it.

[03:14] That was really good. I love listening to you talk. Yeah, you are very good. I feel like the spiral, I really struggle to pitch spiral to people because I'm like, you could turn a thing into another thing. And they're like, what things? But that was actually, that was good. I think you nailed all the beats of when I'm pitching it, you nailed all that stuff. But your voice and your inflection, everything is just so much better. [03:44] I can't take credit for it. It kind of reminds me like when we first met Danny, I was like, is he 45 and just like super mature? And is this his voice or is he like 22? I kind of can't tell. Somewhere right in the middle. How old are you actually? I'm 27. Okay. [04:00] Yeah. So that's what Spiral is. That's kind of like what we're launching. Like why are you doing this with us? Obviously, you're super talented. You've got a long history of working at different startups. [04:14] how did you end up doing this? Um, [04:18] I think I've been following every for a while. I've been following the content that you've been putting out for a very long time. And... [04:25] To be fair, I hadn't actually seen any of the products that everybody had put out. It was always just the content. I have actually just like a bunch of bookmarks of things that you've written, Dan, and like other people have written. And... [04:36] when I saw that you guys were looking for EILs, entrepreneurs in residence, I was like, this makes so much sense. I think a lot of what I've been feeling working at startups, every startup that I've worked at has raised money. And I've always felt this tension between what felt right for

[04:55] our customers and the business right now versus the grandiose vision that we think we're going to go do. [05:02] And then when I first met Brandon and Brandon was kind of explaining to me of like, we have this media business and then we have all this consulting and, you know, we're trying to [05:12] Charter and Destiny, it all just resonated really well with how I was feeling. [05:16] I love that. So I think something that you just said... [05:23] I kind of want to do a callback to your introduction of what we're trying to build here, which is a media business as a foundation and a number of things that are layered on top of that. And one thing kind of helps the other succeed. But there's another thing that you just said, which... [05:42] is a lot harder to put your finger on and a lot harder to figure out if we're actually doing well, which is like charting our own path and doing it in a way that feels really right for all of us as individuals. And, um, [05:55] I feel like when we first had the idea for what you've been thinking about for many years, but then we sort of came together and we're like, let's do this thing. We were like, [06:03] we're pretty sure this is going to work. We just need to do it. And then there's this other piece, which is like, but are we still going to be happy? [06:11] That like we're like currently figuring out. And like, I think that was a part of working with you. I was just like, I think that Danny feels, you know, what we're, [06:20] what we're trying to do, I think that he's trying to do that too. Yeah. How has that been for both of you? Like, like the, there's, I think there's that thing that we're sort of aspiring to, like a word that we often use internally is like,

[06:33] building a little bit of a creative playground. And then there's also the sort of reality of like, it's really fucking hard to like run a business and it's hard to run like [06:42] three businesses all at once. So like, yeah, how has that been for you, Danny? And then I'm curious, Brandon. [06:49] I think for me, the thing that I really get [06:52] It's a little bit difficult for me to answer that question. [06:54] for everyone because I'm 95% of the time focused on spiral. Um, and obviously the [07:00] It came out of every and, you know, I've spent the last couple of weeks just talking to the people who are using it a lot and [07:07] 80% of the people that I've spoken to [07:09] We are using Spiral because of Evry. I actually spoke to somebody the other day, and she literally said, whatever Evry tells me to do, I'm going to go do. That's incredible. Yeah. Um... [07:20] Don't don't do everything we say, but it's nice. I like to hear that. Do as we say not as we do. Yeah [07:29] So I feel like I get to focus a lot and so I haven't felt that tension and I [07:36] Because the media business... [07:39] is doing well enough that it can support something like this. I don't feel this tension of, oh, I have 18 months until I have to go raise another round. And I think we have a team of people where we can everything we need to do [07:50] we can do, and then we just know people who can help us with the other things. So I haven't felt this pull of anything other than I get to focus. That's cool. Yeah. What do you think? I go through phases of, of [08:03] feeling that freedom that I was searching for for so many years while running Clyde. I go through phases here. A really good example is this morning when we needed to make all these changes to Sparkle. Yeah, so Sparkle is our AI file organizer. It helps you organize your computer using AI. It's a really amazing little product. We put it out.

[08:25] a number of months ago. May or June or July, something like that. Yeah. Like we, it works really well. It's pretty basic. It, [08:33] gets 50 new customers per day, [08:36] And we're just sort of like trying to see what happens to it right now without us like needing to invest a ton. But we're also realizing that we need to continue to invest in it. And this morning we were doing a bunch of like annoying stuff to save ourselves from like a tax situation in the future, basically. And so. [08:57] I [08:58] was just like kind of flustered because I didn't really have like my morning routine and I didn't, because I just went straight into solving this problem and I turned to my wife Lydia and I was just like, this sucks. Like I'm not, you know, I hate. And she, she looked at me and she was like, this is the work part of your job. And I was like, you're right. And I rarely feel this way. [09:18] So this is a good thing. I love that. So that's how it's going. That's really great. Yeah, I feel similarly like this sort of the sort of ups and downs, but I like having run every for five years. This is like without a doubt, like my favorite. [09:34] era of the business. Um, and I'm someone who I feel, I think you really like to like focus on one specific thing. And I'm just like, I want to do like 50 things all at once. I love that. And so my day is very much like I'll, I'll often start in the morning and I'm like writing for a couple hours. Um, and like coming, going back and forth in case there are like fires or like we always publish in the morning. So I'm usually involved in that in some way. Um, and then the rest of the day is like, uh, talking to various people about the different businesses we have going on and,

[10:04] you know, looking at spirals with you today, or like, you know, we have a couple of like alpha products that we're working on. So like trying to figure that stuff out and, or some of the consulting that we do. And I love, love, love the variety. [10:17] And I do feel like it's sort of like this playground, which is like very special because all the stuff we do is like stuff I'm deeply interested in, which is cool. [10:26] but it does get [10:29] It's a lot. - I think this is like an interesting transition to like, how do we do this well? [10:36] Because I really like doing a lot of things too. [10:39] every does a lot of things but but you and you do one thing at every but you do a lot of things within that one thing and like so far you've kind of only done one thing which is like get us to this v2 yeah and i'm curious how you feel about like [10:57] where starting a new journey where you're going to be transitioning to like [11:00] doing other things besides what you've done for the past many years, meaning like marketing and growth and all of these things. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the thing that I'm most excited about [11:11] is throwing myself kind of in the deep end. [11:13] And it's also why I love the idea personally for me to continue to [11:17] answering your question then of like, why am I working on Spiral is [11:21] I think I've spent most of my career having ideas of how I think all these other things should work, and I've never been able – I've never been in the environment to actually go test those ideas because it didn't make sense. You know, if you've raised a round and you have 18 months, you're not going to let the engineer go do X, Y, and Z. You're going to go hire someone who actually knows how to do X, Y, and Z. Yeah.

[11:41] So... [11:42] nervously excited is how I'm feeling. But I think it's going to be like, we had this product for people to love. And really, it's just about figuring out [11:51] what's missing for them and then who else is just like them and how do we go get them? Not to make it sound too easy. I think it's going to be pretty difficult, but yeah. [12:00] Did that answer your question? I think so, yeah. How do you feel about it? I think my genuine question is, does it work? Does the model work? For many, many years, there's been this whole thing of, go raise a bunch of money, go hire all the people you need to do all the different jobs, and our model is the complete opposite of that. Don't raise any money and don't hire anybody. Do it all yourself and we're going to support you with ideas and resources. I think that's my biggest question. [12:30] I think it will work, but yeah, and it's definitely it's it's also really hard. I think one of the one of the other parts of your question we haven't touched on is like it's really hard to run multiple businesses. And like, for example, putting out a daily newsletter that's really high quality and a podcast and doing courses and doing trainings. [12:52] All of that is a lot. And then adding layering on other software businesses is like, it's, it's a lot, a lot. And usually I think people have a hard time, um, [13:02] have a hard time balancing those things. And part of, I think part of the reason it's worked so far is it took us a long time to get there. Like we're, I guess this is, it's almost exactly five years since I started every, it was like Thanksgiving of 2019, which is crazy. I actually hadn't even thought about that. - Congratulations. - Yeah. And there's been a lot of different eras and we've tried a lot of different things, but I think like,

[13:32] um, I think this this latest like spurt and in growth and things that we're doing it all basically started when you joined And I think one reason for that is like obviously you're just like super talented and super hardworking And you've like brought so much to what we do And another reason is like there was a foundation there that like we could bring you in and there like there was a lot of potential energy um, and I think I think that's [14:02] And you have like 18 months like it we raised a little bit of money in 2020, but we never spent it we have basically the same amount of money that we raised and and [14:11] I think that afforded us the time to like let this thing bake a little bit so that when we hit the right moment, we could like let it rip a little bit more. [14:22] Fuck yeah. Let it rip. We are letting it rip right now. Time will tell if it will. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it will. It's working. Like, it's working. It's just, something is working. We just don't exactly know what it is and how big it will go. [14:43] Thank you. [14:44] This model feels like it should not work. [14:47] like if you ask someone a year ago or two years ago or three years ago, like I want to do this with this newsletter. Like, you know, we're going to, we're going to like have the newsletter and then we're going to like make products and we're going to like bring people on to like help us like run the products and build more of them. And there were, they would say like, it's not going to work for like five different reasons. Um, and, and I can list those out, but it is kind of working. Um, and, uh, and one of the questions in my mind is like, why is it working now? And I think it is working uniquely now in a way that it may not have been able

[15:17] like four or five years ago. And a big reason is AI stuff. Like it is just so much cheaper and faster to make products. And I'm curious like how that has been for you or like how using AI tools has like changed your workflow or your productivity level or what you're able to do. [15:37] Before I answer the question, I think AI has also made it super easy to do the media part of stuff. I was shocked to see that the images that we have is a custom chat GPC that we have that spits out images. And then we do a little bit of tweaking. And by the way, this whole podcast AI generated. Yeah, we're not really here. We're not supposed to tell anybody that. [15:59] But... [16:00] To answer your question, I think, [16:02] you know, the obvious answer is it just allows me to move so much quicker. But it allows me to do also like the mundane things a lot more quicker. Like, [16:09] I'm able to build tools for myself in a way that I was never able to do. And I think, you know, if we think like 10, 15 years ago, if you wanted to kind of do that, you'd have to probably like [16:18] get resources and a budget and like, okay, I want to get three engineers because we're going to build this internal tool. And now I could just ask Claude or Cursor or WindSurf, like, hey, build this internal tool. And it like 80% get there and then I could finish it off. Didn't you just do that? I did just do that. So some of the spirals that we have, we've built out the data set of examples really well and it turns something into something. So for example, it turns transcripts into tweets. [16:40] But we can also use that exact same dataset for turning an article into a tweet. And we don't need to build a whole new spiral. So I just built a really quick tool that allows me to take a bunch of spirals that like could easily be twisted into something else. And I can just be like, Hey, this can also twist into that. And the way that I would have done that otherwise would have been to start from scratch and make them from scratch. Would have taken forever. Do it inside the database viewer, which would have taken forever or.

[17:04] Okay, so this is exactly why, like you're saying it shouldn't work and there's all these reasons why. Yes, AI. And then the other thing, which is the hardest part of this business, is just... [17:15] choosing the right people to work with. And we were talking a little bit yesterday about like, [17:21] We weren't really talking about this explicitly, but like it essentially is this why you're the right person for this. And... [17:30] Maybe we can talk about that a little bit. Like what, what, I feel like there's a certain amount of curiosity that you have that is not normal. Or it sort of feels, it sort of feels normal for like a lot of Every people, honestly. But it's, it's, it's what I think makes Every in the Playground special. And, um, yeah. [17:46] What was your perception of him and why did you want him? I just had this sense like very, very quickly that he was going to be really into doing all of the things that aren't just engineering. While also being technical. While also being technical, which is so important for us. Like I just got the sense that you were really technical. You had great taste. And I actually, the second we met, I was like, this guy's got great clothing. His hair looks great. He has a bunch of plants behind him. So suave. He's very suave. [18:16] or an incredible engineer. [18:19] And and at least in my experience and I was like this is a good start [18:25] But I think it's like having high IQ have being technical but then most importantly having high EQ is like a very good test for for us That's what I was gonna say is like I remember Like the first time we talked Brandon was like, okay, you're gonna talk to this guy. He really wants to build like therapy software and I was like, yes We're gonna have a great conversation

[18:49] Most of the time when I speak to somebody and they're like, I want to be an EIR, I know they'll be a good fit if the conversation just goes from them talking about their background and their work experience to just riffing on an idea. And that's immediately what we started doing. [19:03] Yeah, I mean, I remember the first... Literally, we jumped on the Zoom, it was like in the morning, and you're like, that's a lot of greenery. And I remember that vividly. I like to call out all the greenery is because of my wife. It's not because of me. Um... [19:14] You've got to put that in there or she'll kill me. Good taste. You have good taste. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all me. It's got nothing to do with that. [19:19] Yeah, I think I... [19:21] I can't not get in. I feel like I want to put, even though I really love doing one thing and focusing, I love getting my fingers in everything. Um... [19:29] and yeah i i love just like riffing on ideas and taking them a little bit further the therapy one was really interesting to me for a while until it wasn't and ironically now it's like you know we have a bunch of therapists that are using spiral and they love it and it's far better than any of the therapy specific tools that they're using because it [19:49] And I think that actually is just like, it's worth noting that I think one of the reasons that Spiral is going to be so successful is it's so simple. It's so simple. And there's something really beautiful about that. And that's something that we should keep in mind as we build it. It's just like, how do we not... [20:04] How do we always have that feeling even while we pack it with, you know, a lot of interesting functionality? [20:09] And I think the reason it's simple... [20:13] at least to start, is it came out of something that I was just doing myself. So it's like, it was like this process of like, I was prompting it to like, you know, make tweets, prompting Claude to just make tweets for me. And because it had to be useful, it like, it had to be simple. And so I think we had like, one of the special things about

[20:33] What we have is everybody is using the stuff we build every day. We're not building for people who are different than ourselves at least not yet. And I think that that feedback loop help keep helps keep things simple because we have a better idea of like what's necessary and what's not and a better idea of like, is it like is it being overbuilt or, you know, like, is it too complicated now, you know, yeah, I really like that. [20:55] I'm kind of curious Brandon like your last business. So like your last business like you raised 50 million bucks for I [21:03] And just going back to the like, [21:06] like [21:06] why is this working when it kind of like shouldn't? I guess... [21:11] In your view, like what's different now about this era and about like what we're doing in every then than the constraints or what was possible when you were running your last business? What have you noticed? Well, they're very different businesses. I think it's like the first thing I like, you know, decided to build. I cannot imagine more complicated business. Yeah. [21:31] For my last company, it was... What was it again for people that don't remember? So it was an insure tech business that helped any brand launch their own version of AppleCare. So I was 22. I'd never built an insurance company before. And I was essentially building an insurance company that also had this whole tech side of it. And it was just an insanely complicated... [21:50] Technical feet, financial feet. Then we had to like fix people's shit, which like I didn't realize when we launched it initially. And it was just really complicated. So I think that the...

[22:03] If I had to boil it all down to one thing, it's just like the simplicity of the second we tried to go build Clyde at every it would consume all of our time because of like the regulations and like. [22:15] The complexity of just like insurance or? I think just the size. It was a huge product that we built and it kind of had to be. [22:25] Because it was B to B to C. So we had to build a business for end consumers. We had to build a business for the businesses that we were selling to. And then we had to build, excuse me, build a product for the insurance companies that we partnered with. So we kind of had to build three products. And they all needed to work really well together. And then also e-commerce just sucks to build for. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. [22:52] And e-commerce merchants are really hard. [22:55] I think the simplicity side of the business, of the products that we're making, is why we'll be successful. And because I think we're focusing almost inadvertently on like prosumery type products where we can just convince you as an individual that this is a good thing for you. And if we do our job, you're likely to share it with your coworkers. That makes sense. What about like abstracting out from your specific business? [23:21] Clyde experience and just like I think we have a bit of a different ethos for how we're building stuff like we or it's attached to a media business. We're not really like raising that much money, like all that kind of stuff versus like like the more standard venture back startup path the last 10 or 15 years. Like what have you noticed is different, either good or bad?

[23:42] I mean, I personally, I think it's just... [23:45] all been good. I guess the only bad thing is like, I feel like we maybe have a bit of a ceiling where like, we're not going to go from like zero to like 30 million. I mean, we could, but it would just, again, it would consume us and that wouldn't be a bad thing. Danny, if you want to, if you want to do that, we won't be mad. So maybe the ceiling is like kind of a bad [24:15] the biggest differentiator is like when you raise $50 million, [24:20] I kind of felt like I personally and the business was always sprinting to make sure that we didn't like [24:28] topple. [24:30] over ourselves, like we didn't fall [24:32] forward. Like I was always running to keep my feet under me. Right. [24:38] And I felt like that personally and I felt like the business felt like that. And I think here because we keep things simple because the types of things that we're choosing to invest in and because we're not raising money. So we like don't owe it to anybody except ourselves. By the time people listen to this, we will have just. [24:57] sort of put ourselves in a position where [25:00] we were leaning a little bit far ahead of ourselves. Like we were taking a risk, but then we'll take a couple weeks to like get our feet under us again. Yeah. And I think just when you raise money, it's hard to do that. Yeah. I think that that's actually like

[25:13] You've just put your finger on like something that has been really important for me is like [25:18] It's not for me. [25:20] The reason we didn't raise a lot of money in the last like four or five years is like it's not because like I don't want to work hard or be stressed. It's like there's a very big difference between stress that you put on yourself and you like choose to when it's right versus like stress about like other people and other people's expectations. And I think for me as a person, I'm just like already so sensitive to like other people that like. [25:44] business that felt like it was [25:48] I could, we could choose when to be stressed felt like [25:52] what I what I wanted, you know, whereas I think some for other people that are like less sensitive to that it it [26:00] it doesn't necessarily change the character of the business quite as much, or they're maybe not as afraid of it as I was. [26:06] Um, and I just really like that [26:10] that freedom to choose to be stressed or not. Yeah. Yeah. Have you felt this much as a founding engineer? [26:17] The stress... [26:20] More comes from like we need to not agreeing with [26:25] the milestones that we're trying to reach because they feel very short sighted. The thing that's been very apparent to me in just like three, four weeks is [26:35] Not the lack of money, but the lack of just like... [26:37] we can burn this because we're going to go race some more. It's forced me to be a little bit more creative, which I really enjoyed. I think like before I was like, oh, I'm going to buy five seats for this thing. Cool, whatever. Now I'm like, OK, looking at the price.

[26:48] I'm like, well, do I really need this? Is there a-- can we be a bit more creative about this? Is there a way that we can get this cheaper? [26:55] Which I think in some places, you know, definitely money is meant to be spent. [26:59] on the right things, but I definitely found that [27:02] before having venture backed money. It's like, well, we have money, we should spend it. [27:06] I was just not being as creative as I could have been. [27:08] And so that's actually been really useful. [27:15] sort of expectations [27:17] place, I think right now what I've been feeling a lot of my own expectations, which have [27:22] been very [27:24] like [27:26] I don't know. [27:27] the fuel from that feels a lot more longer lasting than other people's expectations that feels like [27:33] Just thinking about my own emotional journey, that spiral happens a lot quicker, whereas right now this arc feels like it's going to go a lot further. Wait, sorry, I want to make sure I fully understand this. So you're saying... [27:49] When other people are putting expectations on you, that cycle of feeling stressed about those expectations is like a quick, quicker cycle. And then the fuel runs out a lot quicker. Like, I feel like that gives me, like, it's like... [28:00] I mean, a pressure cooker. [28:01] And I get a lot of stuff done in a pressure cooker, and that's it. It kind of fizzles that off for a couple of weeks. And then it takes a lot of getting back into it, whereas right now it's my own expectations. [28:12] And I kind of, it feels, at least right now, I'll spend a couple of weeks, but it feels like it's going to take me very far. Well, one, I don't know how much equity you owned in previous companies that you were part of, but one thing that I found during Clyde was I could beat the shit out of myself, but kind of only because I felt like I owned it. And you now own a very significant part of it.

[28:36] spiral and I wonder if that plays a part of it at all is like you're literally an owner. Yeah, because that that's what's tough about being an equity owner in a business. [28:46] Like being an employee that has equity. [28:49] is [28:49] it's really not that much. So like the second you feel that pain, you're sort of like, eh. [28:55] It's not a rocket ship already, so it's really not going to be worth that much, which is what's tough about equity as an employee. That's not really the case for you. And I wonder if that comes into it at all. Yeah. I mean, it's not being consciously. [29:08] The... [29:09] A counter example of like my options at other companies has definitely been conscious for me before in that, like I've always, I've never really exercised my options before. Um. [29:17] because it's never made any sense to, and it's never been motivating enough. [29:23] But I couldn't speak to, is that a reason why I'm super... [29:26] motivated right now. It definitely is playing a part into it for sure. You did say like, right answer. We knew we picked right. Um, uh, you did say like the weight of your own expectations is like sort of what's pushing you forward. And it made me think like, what are your expectations for yourself? [29:44] I think... [29:45] I think I've been telling myself this narrative for a very long time of... [29:49] I find all these other things interesting and [29:52] my opinion [29:53] might mean something in these other places. And a big part of this for me, I'm seeing this as an experiment, is a big part of this experiment of running Spiral is [30:02] Are those opinions worth anything? Probably not. And then it's like, OK, well, when I when reality tells me they're not, how do I react to that? How do I shift and figure out what actually does make sense? Will I figure out what actually makes sense?

[30:15] So it's... [30:17] In that I'm being a guinea pig for every in the studio, every in the studio is also being a bit of a guinea pig for me. So it's spiral. So it's kind of this like symbiotic relationship. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that that's such a common founder thing is like, [30:32] this subtle sense of like, I think I could do this a lot better than like, you know, no matter what it is. And, and then, but also kind of like wanting to find out, you know, rather than just sort of like, [30:44] I think there's another personality type that's a little bit more like [30:49] I think I could do this a lot better, but like I don't I'm not gonna try [30:52] Or I think I could do this a lot better, but I'm not going to because I don't get [30:57] value from it. You sort of need to be like somebody who's like, of course I'm going to do an amazing job no matter what. Like, I just love it for the love of the game. [31:06] And this is what makes me feel good. And often you just kind of get smacked in the face when you try, but then you just sort of keep doing it. And then you learn how to do it. Well, yeah. I mean, the way that I described my time running Clyde was it was just being able to, every day was being able to get punched in the face with a smile on my face and being able to wake up the next day and do it again. And that's what it was. Not for all seven years, but like maybe five. Sounds pleasant. Yeah. But I think that's true of a lot of people that raise money. [31:36] especially when it's not going like incredible. There are, I mean, there are definitely times where this business has felt like that for me, but not recently, which is great. Let's keep this street going. It's like, you know, there's like boards where it's like days since like I was punched in the face. Days since nuclear disaster.

[31:58] I love that sweater. [31:59] Thank you. Is that Greek? I didn't get this in Greece. [32:09] What else should we talk about? I want to talk about um... How I can code with my ring now. Yeah, how you code with so many rings on. It really doesn't get in the way. You gotta hold the rings up to the camera. [32:21] There's a lot. Yeah, you know, to be fair, I bumped on the- this was a couple of weeks ago and I bumped with this guy that I met once at a party. And we kind of like saw each other, we recognized each other, and then he's like, "That's a lot of rings." Like we didn't- it wasn't even like- where did we- it was like, "Oh, we met each other at that guy's party." It was just like, "That's a lot of rings." [32:37] I was like, yeah. [32:38] "You're not running out of fingers anytime soon." And I'm like, "Okay." And then that was it. Yeah, and then I met him again, he was a great guy. - That's wild. - But I tell that story, yeah. [32:47] At what point did you realize that you wanted to start working on your ring game? [32:50] So I bought the aura ring first because I was really into like tracking my sleep or whatever. The gateway drug. The gateway drug. And then I was like, oh shit, this looked really good. [33:03] - And then you said, oh shit, it looks really good. - I was like, oh, I actually really like how it looks on my hand. - No, you can really pull them off. - Yeah, you can rock it. - And then I got this one. [33:11] And then I got this one and then I got this one. Is there any special significance? [33:15] Not at all. Okay. Do you have any tattoos? I don't have any tattoos. Okay. Do you? I have one tattoo. Really? Yeah. Where? Right here. Oh, wow. What is it? It's a house... [33:26] It's like five lines of a house. I got it when I was studying architecture, Copenhagen. You know, call back to architecture. And then also my grandma passed away and sort of all connected to that. I was 18. I love that. Abroad. You know, you do these things when you're abroad and you're 18. I don't even see it now, though. That's what's like kind of, you know, fascinating.

[33:45] I literally don't see it on my body. Did it ever bother you that you can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery now? [33:51] Um, no. [33:55] Not at all. That's good. Yeah. I don't think that that's... Do they do that? I don't want to be buried anyway. It depends on how serious they are. Oh, you're going to do the Brian Johnson, like, don't die thing? Oh, no, definitely not. I definitely want to die. Please kill me. [34:11] No, I definitely want to die one day. I think I just want to be like, honestly, I want to... [34:18] Well, I guess I do want to be buried, but I want to be buried without a casket. I want to just be like – I want to decompose as quickly as possible. You want like ashes scattered to the wind? Well, I'm a little bit worried about the ashes thing because like does that sort of negate your ability to like – [34:31] absorb back into, I don't know. So you want to just be like open air? No, not open air, just like I want to be buried with a ton of worms. I see. In the woods or something. Like kind of a moist woods, you know? [34:47] Fertile, fertile, fertile grounds. Damp. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Well, I mean, my family business is Cemetery's Infernal Home, so I can hook that up for you. That's actually, I mean, did you know that? I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. That's like such a fascinating thing. And also your name is W. [35:02] It is W. What does that have to do with anything? Just two fascinating things about you. Those are my two fun facts. Those are the two fun facts, yeah. Yeah, that is actually my number one fun fact, is my name is W. My other one, I just got a new fun fact, which is that I drank a wine that was over 100 years old this weekend.

[35:21] Wow. [35:22] Was it good? I've been storing that one up for the next icebreaker and this is this is the next icebreaker. No, it tasted it tasted like have you ever had like a really like like a very dense balsamic vinegar reduction? Yeah, it was like that. Wow. Basically, yeah, it was a sherry, which it was cool. Yeah. Nineteen nineteen eighteen or something like that. Yeah. [35:43] I feel like you have a lot of interesting things that we don't really know that much about you. I don't have, like, I was literally just now trying to think of, like, fun facts about myself. If we were, like, talking about things, it would come up, but I really struggle to get them from the depths of my head. Yeah, it's hard when you're on the spot. Yeah. But I just feel like you're an interesting guy generally. Like, we learned yesterday that you used to fix your mom's car. Or you, like, oh, you ride a motorcycle. And you didn't go to college, right? I didn't go to college, no. Yeah, you got a lot of interesting stuff. Yeah, which one of those do you want to dig into? [36:13] I think that's a story that I've said a million times. [36:16] When I was like 15 or so, [36:20] I grew up [36:22] In London, I grew up kind of near Wimbledon. Wimbledon was like a stone's throw away. [36:27] My high school was one of the schools that they select ball boys from. I was never a ball boy. And when I was 15, this kid who went to the next school, he built this summarizer app. You could give it an article, and it would summarize it in 400 words or 200 words. And he was a couple of years older than me, and he sold it to Yahoo for some particular amount of money. The app was called Sumly, and his name was... I remember that. I remember Sumly. Yeah, and Nick something. I don't remember.

[36:57] interviews with him and stuff and be like, that guy's cool. And he was just some kid, a couple years older than me, who went to a school that was 10 minutes away. And that, I saw that and that was like this big, like, what the fuck? What? Right, you can do this? Yeah, like people could do this and it was a time in my life where like a lot of, [37:12] the conversations at school and like with people in general is like, what am I going to do with my life? And I did not have an answer. Is that a conversation in England? Like, does that like, are they asking, when do you need to decide that? Do they have like liberal arts colleges in the UK? No, I don't really know what a liberal arts college is, to be honest. We can talk about that later. Denied. Never mind. They're stupid. Okay. [37:42] that was happening because we were in this moment where you were going to pick subjects that you were going to do for the next couple of years. And those subjects that you do then kind of dictate what you're going to do at university. You know, if you're picking maths and the sciences, you're going to go do something kind of related to that. And that dictates your career too. Like you pick pretty early and then you're like set basically. You're like set. Pretty early on. So you just didn't pick. That was strategic. [38:03] Well, so this was a couple of, that's a little too early. At that moment in time, [38:08] I knew that, you know, I was really into computers. I, like, when I was a teenager, I was, like, fucking around with After Effects. I was really into, like, CGI and, like, recording little videos and, like, [38:19] pretending I had a lightsaber and like making it look like I had a lightsaber. And I think from that, and all of that was me like downloading torrented versions of like Adobe After Effects. And so I was kind of.

[38:29] I had my toe in this like interesting world and was just slowly going deeper and deeper into it. Like, what can you do with technology? [38:37] That's so interesting because I was huge on After Effects too, probably around the same time. Or I'm a little older than you, but like at the same age. [38:44] And I wonder if that's kind of a gateway drug, too. It's possible. [38:48] Legos and After Effects. Did you like lightsabers? Because I was also really into lightsabers. I actually was not into Star Wars at all, but I think that was like my parents. I would have loved it. I love it now. Yeah, yeah. I was so into lightsabers that I, you know those like plasma balls? It's like a glass ball. You can touch it. Yeah, you can touch it. So I had one of those in my room, and I really, really wanted to make a lightsaber. I spent so much time on the internet trying to figure out if there's any way to make a lightsaber. [39:18] of time in my room as a kid, I figured out that if you took fart putty, which is, you didn't think it was going there, right? If you take fart putty. [39:27] I don't even know what that is. It's sort of like it's like when you make an air bubble and then it's like plate It's like sort of like Play-Doh material, but it's but it's a little bit more plasticky. Okay I mean you and you can like it comes in a little can and you can like push it down and then it makes a fart noise so if you took if I took fart putty and put it on the plasma ball and then I got like you know the The graphite that pencil lead for for mechanical pencils and then if I put a piece of graph if I hold a piece of graphite and [39:57] the fart putty i would get this like shooting spark and i was like it's a lightsaber and so that's you count it yeah so then i would like i would hold it and then i would like put sheets of paper through and like cut it and i'd be like i'm i'm obi-wan kenobi like i'm i just am loving this image of you doing this that's awesome i almost burned down my house uh multiple times but yeah it was it was cool yeah

[40:21] I hope I have a kid like you. Really. Wow, that's very nice. Yeah, I hope I have a kid that's just like as... Because I was doing digital After Effects. I did a ridiculous amount of film when I was younger. And editing of footage. But I never really did anything. I pretended to take calculators apart. And then with the intention of putting them back together. And then I'd be like, I don't fucking know how to put this. Now it's just a bunch of parts. [40:51] But you were actually putting them back together. You might be giving me a little too much credit. I don't know if I was putting the calculators exactly back together, but I was definitely, I loved. Danny was putting them back together. I definitely wasn't putting them back, at least at that age. I thought that, well, what about that time that you broke your mom's car? Yeah, I mean, so I broke my mom. So my mom was going to get her car serviced, and I was like, I want to go do it. You were like, I can do it better. I can do it better. I'm 12. I think I was like 16 at the time, or maybe 50 or something like that. [41:21] I was like, I could do this. [41:23] And there's this one company that makes manuals for every single car. It's the Hayes Manual. [41:28] And their entire business is building this manual to how to take apart the car and repair it. [41:35] It's the-- [41:35] I really love that business. It's really interesting. [41:38] So I bought the Hays manual for the car that we had. [41:42] Devoured it and then convinced my mom somehow that like she should let her teenage son do her car and she agreed That was that's a little bit on her to be honest. Yeah, I mean all credit to my mom She really did like let me if you had a voice like this at 16. I'd let you do whatever I don't think I'd have was just like this imagine this but a lot more high-pitched and

[42:06] And yeah, I... [42:08] Most of the way got through totally fine and then cracked a spark plug in half inside the engine blog and then spent weeks and [42:16] figuring out how to get it out. And like, long story short was like using some like penetrating oil that I could only get from America, um, and like slowly drilling it out and then forcing it out to go around the threads the other way around. Um, and then I realized that, okay, all the other three spark plugs are going to be really stuck in there. So I just like soaked the shit out of them in WD-40. Um, [42:39] And then they came out. [42:40] And then since then I've like kind of worked on my own cars when I moved here. [42:44] There was like this motorcycle repair class that was happening in Bushwick that I took. That was a lot of fun. Um... [42:49] Yeah. And you have this this principle that you apply to your life from then on, which is? [42:55] Fuck around and find out. I thought you were going to say measure twice. Oh, right. We talked about this, Danny. I was setting you up, man. I actually didn't know you. I like fuck around and find out better than that. Yeah. [43:10] It's kind of what we're doing here. A little bit. Yeah. It's like measure twice, cut once in the front, and then fuck around and find out in the back. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've definitely figured out the like, yeah. Otherwise, you get stuck in situations. [43:25] funny, I think I've [43:27] I don't think I've learned that. Life constantly teaches me that lesson over and over and over again. And hopefully one day I'll learn that lesson properly. Or not. I think that maybe the reason why you, like maybe the three of us have done, you know, built businesses, which is arguably like the stupidest thing that you can do if your goal is to make money or like be happy. Or start a newsletter. Or start a, definitely start a newsletter is because it's sort of like measure, you

[43:54] measure once cut twice. Ready, fire, aim. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's just sort of like, I'm curious about this and I'm going to go for it now. [44:04] Miss Fernandez, my third grade teacher, always, I remember this very well, said my report card that I was, um, [44:13] What's that word? When you do things without thinking. [44:17] Impulsive? Impulsive, yes. She wrote that in my... [44:22] in my report card. And I remember thinking, [44:26] That's not such a bad, like it was like a bad thing, but I was thinking that's not, that doesn't sound so bad to me. I had the same thing. My fourth grade teacher, Mrs. Pfeiffer, said I was a nutty professor. Oh my God, that's perfect. That's like when I called you the drunk uncle. [44:47] Nutty professor, drunk uncle. It's just, you know, it's just, she was like, you're always thinking about stuff, but you're like kind of not always there. [44:56] that was great my mom was like that's terrible you cannot you cannot be like that that's that's perfect i don't have any quotes that i can remember but my entire time spent at school was thinking [45:08] I'm too clever for this and this is fucking boring. And there's more interesting things for me to be doing. So what did you do? So, you know, is it 18 when you go to college in the UK? I was like 17 when I left school. And it's you graduated high school. I graduated high school. And then before we go to university in the UK, there's like these two years that you do. We have to go get your A levels. And.

[45:27] I decided that I wasn't going to go to university. I was either going to do computer science or economics. And I didn't have the grades to do economics. And then I went around to all the different universities, like, talking to... [45:37] the kids who were doing computer science. And I kind of just, it's not that I felt that I already knew what they were talking about. It's that they weren't talking about anything interesting. The things they were working on, they weren't building anything cool. And it, [45:48] I don't know. It seemed kind of stuffy and... [45:51] Mm-hmm. [45:52] not what I wanted to do. At the same time, [45:55] me and a friend of mine were getting really hooked into this idea of startups. We were reading and watching YouTube videos of all this stuff that was happening in San Francisco. And all of that was really exciting. That was far more exciting than school. It was far more exciting than go to the [46:11] Then we realized that there was people in London doing the exact same thing. And we just like decided to turn up to like an event that someone was hosting. I don't remember what it was, who it was, but it was the first time in my life, and I was like 16 or 17 at the time, where adults treated me like an adult. [46:28] It might be because I had a beard at the time, probably was, but it was like the first time that I really felt like I was being listened to and heard. [46:36] people actually cared to hear my opinion. And it was about this kind of stuff. And it was like from that moment on that I was hooked. - I do think that's a very different thing about the tech industry, which is, [46:47] it's almost nine, it's like 95% amazing. There's 5% of it. So it was a little bit weird, but like, it's the only industry where, um, one you're taken seriously based on like what you can do rather than like your credentials. Um, and as a result, it's, it's the only industry where like young people are taken really seriously from the very beginning. And I always felt that too. Like there are so many times in my career where I can just remember as like an 18 year old or like a

[47:17] stuff and like talking to like people who are in their 30s or 40s or 50s and they like actually listened um and i know now like talking to 20 year olds i'm like wow you're you know nothing and i try to pay that forward because like they they were really nice to me yeah yeah yeah i feel like in the tech industry there's there the [47:38] the [47:40] impact or the, the, um, [47:44] Yeah. [47:44] having potential is just as important as having experience. And, you know, [47:50] i think that's also like kind of where vc kind of goes like a bad direction a good example is giving me a 22 year old 50 million dollars like it's just it's there needs to be sort of we're having a correction like literally right now we're experiencing that but uh [48:07] it is a special place where potential is, is just as important as experience. I think that was like the 5% bad is sort of like, [48:15] Um, sometimes when you give a 22 year old like 50 million dollars, like it turns out really well. And then I just have a lot of friends for whom it's like, it was a very scarring experience that they didn't really like know what they were getting into. And all the adults around them were kind of like, [48:32] you should go do this. This is your time or whatever. And I think that's the sort of difficulty of it. Yeah. And I think that's because running a business, like yesterday we were going through a lot of P&Ls and figuring out how we manage taxes for all of these different LLCs. And it's like,

[48:51] That's not fun and you really need to pay attention and do it right. And when you're 22, you're sort of like, none of this matters. I can like do whatever I want, but like that can come to bite. Not that that was my situation, but yeah. [49:03] it very well could have been. Yeah. But also, and it's also like you just like there's a, there's a lot of weight [49:09] That is on you that you don't even realize how it's gonna feel until you're in that position like I [49:16] You're thinking of yourself like cool like I'll be the CEO of this company. It'd be amazing and like I'll have all these people working for me I'll have all this money and it seems awesome and then it is awesome until things start going wrong and then it's like um [49:28] It can just be really hard to handle it last years for people. Yeah, I think it's definitely, I think about the things that one has to do in running a business. I think if I was 22 and I had to hire people, fire people, I don't know if I would have done that well. [49:43] It's a school of hard knocks for sure. [49:47] But such a, I mean, I feel like we're, [49:51] I don't know if we're shitting on it, but like it is also an incredible thing where you just learn so much and you mature. I feel like it enables you to like mature. [50:00] really quickly both professionally and personally [50:04] But you're still kind of like controlling your own destiny a little bit. So you get to mature in a sense that in a way that also feels like [50:12] I can own my life versus like I'm going to just dedicate the next 50 years working for just doing a job. Like I definitely, you know, I feel like that's probably the case for all of us. We're all like around 30 and it's odd to be around 30 and sort of feel like I'm going to live my life exactly the way that I want it and I can.

[50:33] I I do I do really really love that and yeah, I don't I don't definitely don't mean to say like 22 year olds shouldn't run businesses or raise money. It's just like it's it's pretty situational and I think sometimes they get pushed into things that they wouldn't ordinarily do and [50:48] and by people who are older and know better than them. And I think that kind of sucks. So Ezra Galston, who is one of my investors, and I think is like one of the best investors I've ever worked with, he runs a VC called Starting Line. He explained it to me as multiple different types of founders. You can have a freshman founder, which is like you're super naive. [51:08] Um, and you don't know how hard something is going to be and you can have a sophomore and a junior founder, which I forget how we define those, but imagine it somewhere between freshmen and. [51:18] which is I've done this before. [51:21] I know how hard it is. I'm going to take on only the amount of money that I need. And he basically was like, you only really want to invest in senior founders and freshman founders. Because the ones in the middle are kind of like maybe a little stuck up. They didn't learn their lesson hard enough, you know, one way or the other. And I don't know what you are yet. [51:41] I don't know. I don't know. I don't yeah, maybe you like also exist outside of this because we're not we're not investing any money on the charts You're off the charts. Yeah. Yeah, you never went to college

[51:54] Yeah, I mean I think if I was to define myself in those [51:58] in that constraint, I would say I'm much more on the earlier side. [52:03] But yeah, I feel like that constraint doesn't necessarily fit. Yeah. Yeah. [52:07] One thing on my mind, because we're getting close to the end, and just to sort of bring it back to spiral stuff, because like... [52:14] I love the idea and we've done this a bit in other parts of the every journey, but like I love the idea of having these conversations as like little time capsules. And so this is sort of a time capsule of the very start of your spiral journey, your every journey. And I'm kind of curious for you, like if we and there's no right answer to this, but like like when we come back in a year and we're like on on the pod and we're we're doing the like one year review. V3. [52:44] hopefully be six. [52:48] And, you know, GBT seven is out and like whatever, like, uh, yeah. What, where do you hope to be? What, what is it? What does success look like for you? I think, [52:58] Where I want Spiral to go to in the next year... [53:01] Beyond like [53:02] being used by a bunch of businesses and stuff, I think the product [53:06] I want it to stay simple. Yeah. [53:09] But simple doesn't mean stupid. [53:11] I think it has this opportunity to be really clever and [53:16] automate things for people in a way that they didn't really realize that it could be automated. I think, the thing that I think about a lot [53:22] about AI in general is that I think most people have tried AI. They've asked ChatGPT for a joke or whatever, but there is

[53:30] That's it. [53:31] and they've never tried it again. I think there's this world of businesses and individuals who are not really utilizing the tools that we have right now. Um, [53:41] I think Spiral is simple enough that it's simple and powerful enough that it can be really easy to use and be impactful enough to their day to day lives. I think getting it in the hands of more people. [53:50] with a lot of the advancements that we want to work on, making it easier to share, making it a little bit more powerful, so it's doing even more for you. [53:58] I think would be exactly where I want Spiral to be in it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Um, I, I mean, and I hope you also learn kind of like the things that you seem like you're, you, you want to learn, which is like, do I know better? Can I, can I do all the other stuff, uh, in addition to the engineering stuff? And yeah, I, I also like, I think, uh, you know, I love, I love those things you mentioned, like, I love Spiral as this kind of like, for me, it, it operates as this like inspiration machine where like, I can just like, if I'm doing a task, like, um, you don't have to [54:28] or like I have to, you know, do a like YouTube description or whatever. I can just like throw some input into Spiral and it just gives me so many different options. And I would love like... [54:40] We were just going through a bunch of the every created spirals today and you surfaced for me so many spirals that are there that I didn't even know. And I would love for it to like... [54:54] 10 10x its ability to act as that sort of like machine where it's like I can just see tons and tons of different possibilities and get through them as quickly as possible to find the thing that has that like little spark. I think there's so much opportunity to do that. And I feel like I feel like we're going in that direction. And yeah, it's going to be it's going to be really cool in a year. Yeah, I think it's gonna be really cool. I mean, what we're shipping now is really cool. And I think it's just gonna get better from that.

[55:24] you know, if we go one level up from a spiral to like studio, um, [55:29] in a year. [55:30] So we have... [55:32] with three products. [55:35] that are all [55:37] in a sort of similar place. We've got, um, [55:41] Sparkle, Spiral, and Quora, which is the product that we haven't announced yet. [55:47] And I would love a year from now for all of those to have [55:53] For all of those to like feel stable, not like technically stable because they're all technically stable, but more like they have – [56:02] plan, we have some understanding of the levers that like make them work and we're able to [56:10] pull on those levers however we want. So I would like that for all of--for those three products. [56:17] And... [56:19] I think my hope for the rest of the studio is that... [56:23] Um, [56:25] one we're able to like offer resources to like [56:28] Danny, Kieran, like all the other EIRs. [56:31] that allow them to do their best work in things that they're maybe not great at, or like don't have the skill sets for, we can supplement them with like the best people. Like a really good example is like performance marketing, kind of really hard to do, like well, and you should know all of our EARs and anybody who's running a business at every, I think should know how to do it. But maybe you don't need to because we have somebody who's actually 10x better than you.

[57:01] So I'd like to be able to like supply a lot of those resources. [57:05] And I hope we can increase the experimentation level. I think that like we're moving... [57:11] ridiculously fast compared to other studios and other people. Like I think we build a lot, but I think we can also do more. [57:19] Like it's been playful, but I think it can be even more playful. Yeah. And I think that what will enable that is like having these three businesses functioning in a way that we are like, okay, we know how to do it. [57:29] So let's just have fun. [57:31] And then if any of these land, we know how to do it. [57:34] Yeah, I think like figuring out the model because like we now we've got three of them and like I think we can step back and like look at like what's worked and what hasn't and like kind of zoom in more on what's worked. I think for me, I would love. [57:48] Like... [57:50] I think this studio and then spiral and all these other products are big bets and I would love to be in a place in a year where we've like really figured out how to like make the media side and the product side like really work together well and feel like the media stuff is adding to the products and the products are adding to the media and [58:08] That's what I think there's this like really special core thing that's happening right now where I go into discord every day and there's like smart creative people like all talking to each other. And it's like there's there's founders, there's writers, there's designers, there's like all these people. And I think that that's so different. Usually people are like in their own little silos and stuff. And I want to like keep that. [58:29] Going because I think it'll grow into something like really beautiful and special and so that's that's sort of that's where I'd love to be in a year.

[58:36] Yeah, I think the hardest thing for us, honestly, is going to be [58:41] looking at the data and being like, this feels like the right data. Like, I feel like we're constantly going to look at the data and be like, this isn't [58:49] It's just going to be hard to figure out exactly what you're saying, which is like, are they playing nicely together? Like, we're going to be able to figure out a little bit, but it's also just going to be like, [58:57] It's this sort of, it's this amorphous [59:00] It's just hard. It's going to be hard to do that. I don't think that I'm necessarily saying I think that there will be a really clear number where I'm like – [59:09] X is, yeah, it's just going to, it's going to be, it's going to be a vibes thing. And that's like, and I think we have the vibes now and I want the vibes to continue and get better. And that's the most important thing to me. Yeah. [59:21] I feel like there's a lot of, there are a lot of like metaphors of business building that are sort of like about like going to war. [59:28] And I feel like [59:30] Every for me is like it's more it's like more like [59:33] Growing like a garden or something, you know, and you got to like create like make the conditions right for things to like flourish And that's a very vibes type of thing So may the vibes continue may the vibes continue

[59:50] This is great, thanks thanks Danny for joining thank you for having me Brandon. Thanks for joining. Thanks, Dan [59:55] This was great. [59:56] *music* [1:00:04] Oh my gosh, folks, you absolutely positively have to smash that like button and subscribe to AI and I. Why? Because this show is the epitome of awesomeness. It's like finding a treasure chest in your backyard, but instead of gold, it's filled with pure unadulterated knowledge bombs about chat GPT. Every episode is a roller coaster of emotions, insights and laughter that will leave you on the edge of your seat. [1:00:27] craving for more. It's not just a show. It's a journey into the future with Dan Shipper as the captain of the spaceship. [1:00:35] So do yourself a favor. Hit like, smash subscribe, and strap in for the ride of your life. [1:00:41] And now, without any further ado, let me just say, Dan, I'm absolutely hopelessly in love with you.